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Artist Area Bulletin Board
> Ask The Ragtime Lady
> Thinking of Starting a Publishing Co? Think Twice!

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Ragtime Lady
BB Goddess
(9/17/00 1:19:14 pm)

Thinking of Starting a Publishing Co? Think Twice!
Greetings, all...

On the MP3.com AABB "Ask The Music Lawyer," someone asked about going into the publishing business, but this person was also reluctant to pay the necessary fees to register their copyrights, as if that's all that's necessary to be a publisher.

Here's what I wrote in reply, and it should be good reading for anyone either wanting to start their own publishing company or just wanting to protect their copyrights and royalties.

==========
Truly - the best way to register your compositions is individually. You can register the contents of an entire CD at once, but the problem is that none of the song titles get mentioned on the registration. That means that years from now, when you're famous and someone wants to cover your tunes, if they do a copyright search for the records, only the CD title will show up in your claimant file. Another problem is, if you decide to change the content, you have to register the CD as a new compilation.

To see how to register a compilation, go to the copyright office and download circular 56 or 56a, which shows you how to fill out the form SR.

Okay, now. My S.O. started his self-publishing and recording business several years ago. We are a little different from you in that we publish sheet music folios of older music - ragtime - as well as producing recordings. We didn't do things according to the book, but we are getting with the program now.

The first thing for you to realize is that if you have recorded a CD which you are now offering for public sale, you are ALREADY a publisher! The problem is that you're invisible, and your rights aren't completely protected by law.

Here's how to do things the right way:

1.) Write and record (or write in notation) a song.

2.) Register it for copyright protection.

3.) Include it in a CD or sheet music and make it available for public consumption (you don't have to sell it to be a publisher or to get copyright protection). Also, register your cover art and your liner notes.

4.) Obtain a bar code for your CD, or an ISBN number for your sheet music. Bar codes can usually be had rather cheaply from your local printer - if you go to the UPC people, it's going to cost $500 for 10 bar codes. Yikes! Bar codes are necessary if you want to get your CD into general distribution. Most distributors and stores won't accept your product without them. But again, once you get an identifier like that for a CD, you can't change the content unless you order a new bar code.

5.) Sign up as a publisher AND artist member of ASCAP or BMI. This will put you on a lot of lists, and make your company's output eligible for representation by the Harry Fox Agency. Well, sort of...

But it will also entitle you to royalties as both songwriter and publisher every time your song is used by a third party - either played on the radio, TV, used in a play or performed live, etc.

6.) Sign up for representation as a publisher member of Harry Fox Agency. But here's the rub - to be eligible, you not only have to be represented by either BMI or ASCAP first, but you also have to show that there has been recording activity by someone other than yourself to get representation. That's because first rights are handled differently by law, and your self-recording doesn't affect those rights. They're in the business of representing mechanical reproduction and synchronization rights. Compulsory mechanical licenses don't come into play until AFTER the song has been recorded by a third party ONCE.

7.) Then, start marketing your music. Big time. Get it into all the stores, both online and in the real world you can. Send demo copies to every radio station that plays your style of music, first locally, then statewide and nationwide. To do this effectively, you should know how to create press kits, cover letters, etc. ...

Let me tell you why I think you may want to hold off on all this for a while. You say you're reluctant to spend $30 each to register your copyrights. If you really are, then you are not ready to become a publisher.

Before you engage in any of the steps above, there are a number of things which you must do. First of all, you need a name for your publishing company. Easier said than done. You have to think about what kind of business this is going to be - a sole proprietorship, a partnership or joint venture, an LLC or other corporation.

Secondly, if the publishing business is going to be in any name other than your real name, you have to register a D.B.A. (doing business as) with your county and/or your state. Check your local laws. This usually requires a filing fee and you must run an ad in your local newspaper for a specific period of time. Every time you move to another county or state, you have to go through the process again.

If you are not a solo act and indeed you have a band, you should have contracts written with your band members for each recording specifying, among other things, who has the rights to the masters, who gets credit for what, who has control, and especially, granting you the publishing rights. You can probably write your own contract if you do a lot of research in advance, but you should have it at least reviewed by an entertainment lawyer before offering it to your band members for signature. This will probably cost you several hundred dollars.

If you decide to incorporate, that too will cost you several hundred dollars if you have an attorney write and file the papers for you. Unless you're really business savvy, I wouldn't recommend the "do it yourself" approach here.

Once you get your company name, you may want to consider trademarking your name so no one else in the country or the world can use it. It will cost $100 to file an intent to use and about $500 for the actual trademark.

And of course, there's all the letter head design and printing, negotiating with distributors, the legwork of getting your stuff into stores...

Oh, and don't forget the photo sessions for your excellent publicity shots, your artist fees for logo design, etc... Oh, and the design and printing costs of your catalog, your database creation and management (you'll have several of these, from customer contacts, distributor contacts, records for individual songs and CDs, sales, inventory...)

Be prepared to spend THOUSANDS of dollars to do things the right way. Now that $30 for copyright registration seems quite insignificant, doesn't it?

I suggest you take a course in starting a small business before you really jump in. You need to know about the different business structures before you set one up, what your obligations will be regarding reporting and income tax filing. If you're publishing works which others have contributed to you, you will have special accounting and reporting restrictions according to law. You'll find all that stuff at the Copyright Office website.

If you treat it as a business, and spend all your waking hours at it, it will treat you back as a professional and you'll make some $$ if your product is half way decent. It can be a bigger commitment than a marriage, so think carefully before going there.

If you don't really want to start up a music publishing company per se, you can still go through the numbered steps above to protect your rights to royalties. But again, this is complicated if you have a band, particularly if you have no contracts with them.

And you should be aware that even if you don't register your copyrights, you do, by law, own your music. You are entitled to sue and collect actual damages, whether you registered or not. But actual damages are really hard to prove in court, from what I hear, and it might be hard to get an attorney to represent you (especially on contingency) if you don't have your registrations in place before an infringement.

Registering your copyrights entitles you to receive damages as stated by law, and the penalties can be hefty if the infringing party is found to be willful - up to $150,000, or $30,000 for an unwillful infringement. Think of your registrations like mandatory insurance on your car. In most states, you can't get a driver's license without proving you have insurance. So what do you do? If you want to drive, you bite the bullet and get your insurance. Try to think of your copyright registrations as the same thing. It's the smartest thing you can do if you're a musician. Your $30 will protect your song for your entire lifetime, plus and additional 70 years! If you died tomorrow, that's still less than 50 cents per year, to protect your song for up to $150,000. Try to get car insurance that cheap! Ha...

Also, on all your liner notes for your CDs here, include these two things:

1.) A copyright notice. Not required by law anymore, but it is a good deterrent. And be sure that the notice includes both performance and composition copyrights, indicated by the famous C in a circle and P in a circle:

(P)(C) 2000 by (Your Name Here)

2.) Your name and address, so people can get in contact you if they want to use your music. I believe this is a requirement if your work is copyright registered.

And don't sweat the evil record companies too much for now. They really don't have the time or the need to go digging around MP3.com in any major way, looking for works to infringe. Chances are, if they find you and like your work, they'll contact you about buying it. They have little incentive to infringe on anyone's copyrights, especially amateurs (and I don't mean that in a negative way).
========

Hope you find this useful.

RAGards,

RTL
--
http://www.rag-time.com/
www.mp3.com/RealRagtime
www.mp3.com/BoGrumpus
www.mp3.com/IanWhitcomb
www.mp3.com/IanWhitcomb2
www.mp3.com/DawnoftheCentury
www.mp3.com/StompOff

emile berliner
Human Being Extraordinair
(9/17/00 5:13:08 pm)

harry fox
dear ragtime lady,
who is or was harry fox?
how come the harry fox company is not considered a monopoly?
rag on,
emile
p.s. i was on a roll with "when you wore a tulip and i wore a red, red, rose" and "moonlight bay" the rest are
still a mystery!

Ravenbwd
Human Being Extraordinair
(9/17/00 11:19:21 pm)

Re:publishing house
Tracy,

What a great post! the only thing I think didn't get mentioned in here is that the rights to the photos coming off the photo shoot have to be negotiated with the photographer - somehow their artistic contribution is almost never treated as "work for hire"!

Do you suppose there is room for a "first use" publishing company, that exists solely to do the first licensed recording of a song that makes it eligible for Harry Fox representation?

Also, how do you get bar codes from your local publisher. Are these not centrally controlled? This is the voice of total ignorance speaking - but I have to get a few bar codes, and I don't want to spend $500 on it!

A final point. You can get the same kind of coverage as Tracy describes if you record someone else's music (with proper permission, of course). This only protects you again actual copying, quoting, and sampling of your work, but for the price, it is probably worth it for anything that you are actually going to market!

Brian

mp3.com/briandodson

Edited by: Ravenbwd Edited by: 9/18/00 12:34:30 am

dond123
Bionic Producer
(9/17/00 11:46:10 pm)

none of my business!
Brian,
I have no right to comment on this post, so I apologize.

We've been paying $300 to produce UPC codes, because we share your ignorance, and, haven't learned how to register our own. We use a subcontractor, UPC vendor, and, they provide everything we need to make a product with reproduceble, print codes, we can distribute anywhere.

UPC codes are necessary to sell original product thru every national company. It's mandatory!

Like everything else, this isn't rocket science! Figure out the system, and, anyone can do this...unfortunately, it;s beyond the time I have available for research, so, I have to pay too.

Thank you for all you taught me with your prior posts!
dond

Ragtime Lady
BB Goddess
(9/18/00 2:02:44 am)

Re: harry fox
Emile... As usual, you put forth some pretty tough questions. I've been trying to find information - ANY information - about the namesake of the Harry Fox Agency with absolutely no luck! I do know that there was a very well-known dancer in the 'teens and early '20s who was a competitor of the famous dance team of Vernon and Irene Castle. It's reputed that the dance "the Fox Trot" was named after the dancer Harry Fox, but it's also quite possible that the Fox Trot was just another animal dance in the same vein as the Grizzly Bear, the Camel Walk, the Buzzard Lope, the Turkey Trot... all variations on the basic one-step and popularized in 1910 with the first dance on that list, the Grizzly Bear. Originally published as an instrumental rag in 1909 (by George Botsford, better known for "Black and White Rag," the Grizzly Bear didn't catch on until 1910 when a very young Irving Berlin wrote lyrics to two themes of the rag, and the song was popularized in San Francisco by the immortal Sophie Tucker, and in vaudeville by a very young and then brunette Mae West.

But that's besides the point. I'm still trying to learn if the HFA was named after that dancer, and if so, how he became interested in representing publishers' mechanical rights. The HFA was organized in 1927, well after the dancer's prime years, so this could be something he began after retiring from the stage. I can't say why they're not considered a monopoly, other than the fact that publishers are and always have been free to represent themselves in mechanical rights assignments, but why bother? The rates are statutory, so there are no negotiations to be had. I believe there are several other agencies performing the same function as the HFA, but the latter is more visible and much better known. As a publisher, I'd deal through them rather than some other guy, and I wouldn't want to be bothered with writing all the contracts AND enforcement.

Brian and dond... We obtained about 12 bar codes from our local printer at the cost of about $30 each. Those numbers are permanently assigned to our projects, and we can have labels printed to stick on our CDs OR we can have them printed directly on the tray card of subsequent printings. In fact, many CD duplication facilities offer bar codes at a discount rate as a "perk." Check with your local print shops and CD replication facilities in your area. You may be able to buy blocks of barcodes in a similar manner. Here are some Internet resources:

http://www.unisette.com/
(This is one of the CD duplication facilities we use, but not who we bought our barcodes from)

More from this site:
unisette.com/html/Graphic.html

Check this out, from that page:

======
9.Need a BARCODE? You can call the Uniform Code Council at (937) 435-3870 to purchase your own number (Or check their website at www.uc-council.org). The cost is around $500. Simply tell us what your number is and we will generate the bars for you.

Don't want to spend $300 on your own number? Just ask - we will provide one FREE with your full graphic package order. If you are supplying your own printed material and just need a barcode, we will sell you one for $50.00. We can also generate barcode labels.
=======

http://www.oasiscd.com/
Oasis CD. A friend of mine just finished his first CD project through them. They also offer distribution and storage as well as barcodes. There's some excellent information there too for musicians.

And en route to looking up other things, I found plenty of information about being your own music publisher by doing a search on:

http://www.altavista.com/

for this exact term:

"Harry Fox Agency"
(in quotes, just like that).

There were a number of returns for entertainment lawyers, who have made a lot of good, basic information free to public just to attract people to their offices. It's pretty easy at a glance to determine which pages to visit and which not to.

Oh, and one more comment for Brian, who wrote: "Do you suppose there is room for a "first use" publishing company, that exists solely to do the first licensed recording of a song that makes it eligible for Harry Fox representation?"

Hehehe... I would say, absolutely NOT. Here's why. "First Use" is also "Most Lucrative Use." Those negotiated fees for first use are much higher than subsequent statutory mechanicals.

HOWEVER, there are actually plenty of "first use" recording businesses out there, and they usually not only screw the songwriter out of any royalties, but they also CHARGE them for the privilege! Have you ever heard of the Song Poem industry? It's been a thriving business since the turn of the last century. Check out the American Song-Poem Music Archives at:

http://www.aspma.com/

The fellow who put together this excellent website has consulted with us for bios on several of the early participants in this business who were quite well respected songwriters at the time. Brian, you will get lost there for hours. And the sound clips are certainly the best of the worst, guaranteeing HOURS of wasted entertainment value! Let me know how you like exploring the true underbelly of the music industry! What a wonderful, crazy environment...

RAGards,

RTL

Edited by: Ragtime Lady  Edited by: 9/18/00 4:10:57 am

Ted Lehman
Songwriter
(9/18/00 7:57:33 am)

Tracy: Yopu are great!!!! Thank you!!!!

AlternativeStatic
BB God
(9/18/00 8:55:03 am)

Some misconceptions about UPC Codes
On the topic of UPC Codes, there appears to be some confusing and/or wrong information. I've been speaking with the Uniform Code Council (they are the bigwigs in Ohio that handle all the UPCs), and I'm about to file an application to become a UPC manufacturer. That will give me the power to create my own unique UPC bar codes for my own products, and the cost is much less than I've seen mentioned here.

For the record, this is the correct information:

When you register your company with the UCC, your (one time) membership fee is based on your annual sales AT THAT TIME. For companies that make less than $2 Million per year, the (one time) fee is $ 500.00. That's ALL.

There is a ton of very useful information about UPC codes and the UCC in general (as well as a membership application that you can fill out online!) at www.uc-council.org.

Hope this helps!

Michael

Davey Boy Crocky
Drinks Poofy Drinks
(9/18/00 11:51:32 am)

Re: Some misconceptions about UPC Codes
CD Baby (www.cdbaby.com) will sell individual UPC barcodes for $20.00 each. However, you have to register your CD there $35.00 fee for this. However, CD Baby is a good outlet for selling CD's and probably worth the membership fee.

www.cdbaby.net/resources/barcode.htm

Ragtime Lady
BB Goddess
(9/18/00 11:59:48 am)

Source of Confusion: UCC Website!
Michael -

It has been about a year since I visited the UCC website. I remember it having rather lengthy pages and some good information. Having visited it now, I see they have entirely redesigned the site, and the stupidity of that design is laughable. They've done two things wrong:

1.) They must have read that survey which showed that some 40% of AOL users don't know know to scroll down a page, so they've assumed that we're all idjuts and reduced most pages to a single paragraph. A visitor who is unfamiliar with UCC has to click through lots and lots of pages, hopelessly groping for what he's looking for.

2.) After assuming that we're too stupid to scroll, they assume that we're all so very familiar with what the service is and does that each page is chock full of lingo and unfamiliar terms. They've forgotten to provide what people like us - small businesses who want to expand our distribution - need. Specifically, how much does it cost and what do we get for our money?

I'd like to meet the fella who designed that site and throttle his corporate ass. It's completely incomprehensible to someone unfamiliar with the service, and seems to be geared toward impressing the distribution/analysis specialists working for their highest powered member corporations. But the problem is that those aren't the people who are going to be visiting their website - it's poor saps like me who just want a number to stick on their CD.

It's bloated with bureaucratese - my least favorite language, because it uses the most possible words to give the least information. Check out this paragraph (my comments in parenthesis):

==========
UCC Membership Types. There are two types of UCC memberships, Full and Associate. Membership in the UCC offers many opportunities. Throughout the life of your membership, your company will benefit from significantly reduced prices on UCC products and educational opportunities, and expert assistance through our customer service Call Center.
(Whoa! Just what I wanted - UCC products and educational opportunities!)

Full Membership: UCC Full Memberships are for those companies that use our standards for identifying their products, shipping containers, and locations. (Do I use their standards? Well, do I?) There are many benefits enjoyed by companies with a UCC Full Membership. Full members are able to:

- Utilize their UCC Company Number to uniquely identify their products all over the world.
(I guess that means we get bar codes, eh?)

- Access global system (sic) for supply chain management called the EANUCC System.
(Just what I always wanted!)

- Utilize standards to enable business communications between it and its trading partners.
(Trading partners? A guy calls and says "send us a box of CDs." I say, "Okay, send me a check." Now I can "utilize standards" to do that? Wow.)

- The capability to link critical supply chain information to their company
(Critical supply chain information? What's that?)

- Capture data in a bar code symbol that can be read by other trading partners
(Can't let that data escape!)

- Automatically provide look up information about their products to their trading partner's (sic) to connect their products and shipments to information about them as they travel through the supply chain.
(This paragraph could be reduced: AUTOMATIC SHIPMENT, INVENTORY AND SALES TRACKING.)

- Utilize electronic transmission of business information using a public format.
(So?)

- Reduce errors and increase efficiencies through quick and accurate retrieval of information.
(Hey - I just want some numbers to put on my CDs)
=============

Cripes. I can't for the life of me understand why companies hire MBAs rather than ad copy writers to create their content. All this crap is utterly meaningless to me, and makes me want to run the other way. I'll pay my $15 or $30 or $50 to get barcode labels from my local printer LONG before I'm going to consider entangling myself in this kind of pomposity.

I see there is a link on the page, "Tell us what you think of our new website!" Heheh... I think I will.

Thanks for the info, Michael. You're right - this aspect of the business is fraught with confusion and misunderstanding. And the UCC themselves haven't exactly provided a guiding light.

RTL

dond123
Bionic Producer
(9/18/00 2:10:28 pm)

publishing info
Tracy,

This is a great post!!!!!
thank you!

You attract some great people!

DoctorOakroot
Human Being Extraordinair
(9/18/00 2:20:30 pm)

Re: Source of Confusion: UCC Website!
I recently visited UCC website and had exactly the same observations. When I emailed them for clarification, the resulting answer was even worse.

Nevertheless, if you're releasing more than 10 products, it makes sense to pay the $500 and get enough numbers to cover all your products rather than pay $50 per number. Also when you buy a UPC code for your CD from Oasis, the decoding of the number shows it to be an Oasis product rather than your product. When you're paying a few thou for manufacturing, why not throw in $500 - one time only - and do the UPC code right.

Better yet, get together with 9 friends who are all releasing CDs in the next year, form a "record label", and buy a UPC # to cover all of you. $100 each will get you $500 for incorporation/partnership formation costs and another $500 for the UPC code. Or make it a nonprofit corp... that costs all of $40 here in NC.

Dr O

Ragtime Lady
BB Goddess
(9/18/00 2:58:56 pm)

Re: Source of Confusion: UCC Website!
Hiya, Doc!

Great to see you here! I'd love to see the answer you got from the folks at UPC. They wouldn't know clarity and brevity if it slapped them in the face. Heh...

But you're really onto something here. In ragtime, there are many of us who produce our own CDs. If indeed we can create thousands of product numbers, perhaps the American Ragtime Company should offer this service just like our printer does. Hey! Now there's a plan - $50 gets you all the bar codes you need under the American Ragtime Company name. We are pretty centralized in our field, and we're working on a distribution deal anyway. Why not broaden the product line and give other ragtimers access to bar codes for a reduced fee?

Brilliant! And cheap, too!

Thanks for checking in with us. Hope you stick around!

RTL

Ragtime Lady
BB Goddess
(9/18/00 3:08:13 pm)

My E-mail to UCC...
Earlier today I wrote to the good folks at the UCC website. They had a link, "Tell us what you think of our new website!"

Well, since that was the most inviting invitaion they presented, I figured I'd take them up it. Here's what I wrote:

==============
To whom it may concern:

I am affiliated with a small music publishing company in a niche market. I'm also a freelance writer and a moderator of a bulletin board for independent musicians and record labels. Our company currently purchases bar codes from a local printer.

In a discussion about music publishing, the subject of UPC bar codes came up. Since there appears to be much confusion about their cost and availability, I went to your website to learn about them, and about the UCC services.

I'm a non-fiction writer. I love good use of language. I didn't find any of it on your site. The dumbed-down interface (obviously designed for AOLers who don't know how to scroll) forces a first time visitor to click through page after page, with most pages containing a mere paragraph written in baffling and bloated bureaucratese. I was far more confused about what the UCC's services are after reading your site content than I was before I came.

The tone of the writing, particularly on the "benefits" page, is pompous, impersonal and fatally vague. The simple fact is, I'd rather buy my bar codes from my friendly neighborhood printer who speaks plain English than from you because I can understand him and what he's providing. I'm not alone in this opinion, and your website (and probably your other promotional material) fosters this reaction.

You offer no simple explanations or service descriptions for little guys like me who just want a bar code so we can peddle our wares to music stores. What do you have on your pages that the mom-and-pop shop can relate to? Not much.

In this burgeoning global economy, I see the need for more mom-and-pops to join the UCC, but your site is more of a deterrent than an invitation. I strongly suggest that you hire a real nonfiction copy writer rather than an MBA to create your page content. (And no, I'm not applying for the job.) If your company won't do that, I suggest that your copy writer read "On Writing Well" by William Zinsser (Harper Collins). Chapter 3 alone should show the writer the error of his/her ways.

Please read my complete review in this thread on my bulletin board:

pub19.ezboard.com/fartist...D=85.topic

I hope you will gear your site more toward first time visitors. We DO need the benefits of bar codes and tracking, but your site sure doesn't tell us why or how to do that.

Regards,

Tracy Doyle
The American Ragtime Company

AlternativeStatic
BB God
(9/18/00 3:18:15 pm)

Re: My E-mail to UCC...
I specifically asked the nice lady I spoke with this morning at the UCC how many barcodes I was limited to with a membership. The answer? There is no limit. You have 10,000 numbers allocated to you under that member #.

PFmgmt
Human Being Extraordinair
(9/26/00 4:09:24 pm)

Re: Valuable Info.
Man, if I had known half of this stuff a few years back, I would have been better off.HaHa I learned most of these things the old fashioned way. Trial and mostly error. Fortunately for me CBH3 Records dealt with the Bar Code stuff. Man, what a relief!

There is such an abundance of info. out now regarding the music business that in my view there is really no excuse for musicians to claim ignorance. In my view most people are just outright too lazy to do their own homework. I contantly get asked things that can be learned via even only one book
On "Hatchet Man Therapy" there is a list of recommended books suggested by Andrew Hickey. Guess what. That post has only gotten one view.

Ragtime Lady
BB Goddess
(9/26/00 4:50:22 pm)

Re: Valuable Info.
Thanks, Phil...

I agree that all this information is "out there." It's relatively easy to find with a search through AltaVista, Google, even Yahoo. But still, many people don't know how to search, or just don't think of it for one reason or another. Others have too much of a learning curve to understand it, so they seek customized answers to their questions.

That's why I do what I do. I love to answer questions, and each time I reasearch it adds something to my knowledge base. I benefit by helping others and by gaining knowledge. Now all I have to do is figure out how to turn this into $$...

I'll go check out your book list. Sorry I haven't been in Hatch's forum for a while - my apologies.

RTL

PFmgmt
Human Being Extraordinair
(9/26/00 8:28:38 pm)

Turning it into money.
When you figure that out, please clue me in.Haha

Chylon
Human Being Extraordinair
(10/14/00 10:35:07 am)

The Biggest and Longest Running SCAM
RTL - this is an excellent thread and an important one. However, this is one area that provides the most reason for the horror stories in this industry and there is little that anyone can do. The reason is simple: The PRO's have billions to fight anyone and can tie up anyone who contests them in court through all manner of dilatory tactics. What happens is the contestor runs out of money. Hence, the PRO's win.

Below is some exchanges that have taken place regarding this round between Bobby Farrell and the PRO's. This is the first time, he has received in writing anything in the catalog. We couldn't find the information online. So how did Ms. Hicks do it?

My apologies regarding the formatting. Don't know how it works.

They are the lying, thieving, bastards Bobby Farrell has [b] ALWAYS[/b] called them!

The following is rather lengthy, but it is important information that ANYONE and EVERYONE who wants to be in the music business needs to know regarding the PRO's and the longest running SCAM in this industry!

Check out [link=http://themusicplan.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000034.html] http://themusicplan.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000034.html[/link]

Additional information can be found at [link]themusicplan.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true[/link]

[b] This is a copy of an actual email that Bobby Farrell sent to BMI.[/b]

X-Sender: [email-masked]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:50:09
To: [email-masked]
From: General Bobby Farrell <[email-masked]>
Subject: HOW??????

Spent TWO (2) DAYS on your jackass site!
"HOW?" - as in "is it possible?" - can a 'publisher' check their catalog?
Since the First Part of your SCAM is to NEVER find any airplay for any VMG
product, and the Second Part of your SCAM is to claim 'it was never
cleared', I want to be able to FIND AND VERIFY MY ENTIRE CATALOG.
I've put up with your god damned lies and thievery for well over twenty
years: YESTERDAY our Publishing Company wasn't even in your search; TODAY
the only Author/Composer I can locate is myself, under my given name ROBERT
F. CUNNINGHAM; but cannot check titles except one at a time AND THAT IS
PURE POPPYCOCK!
So I'd like to know WHERE IN THE EVER LIVING HELL ARE THE TITLES OF:
STRANGE BREW;
SABRINA PIKE;
YOUNG COUNTRY;
CHYLON;
REAL CROOKZ;
DEMARCUS BENNETT;
LONE SOJOURNERS;
SHAUN;
TED REKICH;
CHRIS PATRICK CHAMBLEE;
LINO;
ROBIN ADAIR;
T WOODY;
SCARECROWS;
DAN GRAY;
and my own
BOBBY FARRELL?
'Conveniently''never cleared'? More 'conveniently' 'never reported'?
THEY'VE BEEN PLAYING ALL OVER THE GOD DAMNED WORLD FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS
- SO I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOUR GOD DAMNED 'excuse' IS THIS TIME!
It's a simple matter that neither myself nor any anyone who becomes
associated with me ARE EVER IN YOUR GOD DAMNED "PAY CLIQUE" - especially
since I lit those damned lying thieves FRANCES PRESTON and PATSY BRADLEY
when I caught your whole SCAM flat footed and called them on it.
Even so, THEY were the prime motivators for the legal content of sections
a:, and b:, Paragraph 5., of all our BMI publishing contracts, To Wit:
-----
a: PUBLISHER is not a member of either BMI’s “pay” or BMI’s “pittance”
Cliques as evidenced by PUBLISHER’s many charted records, both foreign and
domestic, with only broadcaster promotion of said WORK(s) and BMI’s
perpetual “no surveyed performances” of said WORK(s); therefore
b: Payments to COMPOSER by BMI with respect to said Public Performance(s)
for Profit earnings with respect to said WORK(s) is neither inferred nor
guaranteed by PUBLISHER nor any other entity(ies) what/whomsoever
associated therewith.
-----
Which, WILL REMAIN until you lying, thieving bastards correct your current
methods and operations to conform with HONESTY! Something, I predict, is
beyond your capabilities.
Is anybody there intelligent or MORAL enough to get this picture?
I await your usual mealy-mouth reply.
General Bobby Farrell,
COO, VMG World Wide,
Chmn/CEO Vandor Music GroupBOBBY FARRELL INTERNATIONAL MUSIC PUBLISHING GROUP (BMI)

[b] This is additional information and the response from BMI.[/b]

(This information has been deleted per the request of BMI personnel - RTL)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: General Bobby Farrell [mailto:[email-masked]]
>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 5:50 AM
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: HOW??????
>
>
>Spent TWO (2) DAYS on your jackass site!

(Also snipped repost of Farrell's above message for brevity - RTL)

>>
[b] I tried to search too. This is the copy of the email that I sent to BMI.[/b]

X-Sender: [email-masked]
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:54:14 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Chylon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Bobby Farrell's Catalog

To: You Liars and Thieves:
I tried to find the song titles in your online database that you emailed him and NONE of them showed up. WHY?

I, among others, KNOW that there are songs that your Lying and Thieving company do not list! WHY?

This is more than a disgusting and contemptible issue because we've ALL seen the songs YOU listed in various charts. WHY hasn't he been paid? I know that thousands of us await your reply!

Your organization is the lying and thieving organization that Bobby Farrell has ALWAYS called you. If he isn't telling the truth, SUE him!

I am telling EVERYONE I know and am forwarding them a copy of the email that you sent to Bobby Farrell in proof that you are liars and thieves that he has ALWAYS called you! Furthermore, I'm also going to post ALL the communications EVERYWHERE I can on EVERY Bulletin Board online that I can find. In addition, I've told EVERYONE that I know to post it on the BB's that I might miss and to spread the information to EVERYONE in their acquaintenances!

Block my email and I will save the information accordingly for EVERY legal purpose.

Chylon
1124 Montclaire Drive NE
Albuquerque, NM 87110

Edited by: Ragtime Lady  at: 10/16/00 6:27:38 pm

Ragtime Lady
BB Goddess
(10/14/00 4:34:52 pm)

Re: The Biggest and Longest Running SCAM
Chylon...

I'm glad that you appreciate this thread. I agree, there's lots of great information in it.

Regarding formatting in this forum, neither HTML nor EzCodes are allowed out of deference to me - the fellow who established this forum knows I have a slow modem, and that I travel alot. Not allowing formatting also disallows graphics, which would make it difficult for me to keep up when I'm on the road.

Okay, now let's take a look at what you posted. I guess I have a few questions.

First of all, I must restate what I have said before - Bobby's combative and name-calling approach is not endearing, even if he IS right. I commend BMI in their restraint in their reply to him.

Let's go through BMI's response to him, shall we?

"1) PLEASE TYPE THE NAME OF YOUR PUBLISHING COMPANY AS FOLLOWS: BOBBY FARRELL INTERNATIONAL MUSIC"

Okay, this is interesting. In his reply to that statement, Bobby wrote:

--------
"As for not being 'affiliated' under my right name, ROBERT FERRELL CUNNINGHAM, your jackass operation has stonewalled that procedure for 22 YEARS!"
--------

Well, if you will look at his website and his correspondence headers, you will find that his name is spelled "FARRELL," not "FERRELL." Interesting that he would misspell his own name, don't you think?

"2) WE DO NOT ALLOW SEARCHES OF PUBLISHER CATALOGS ON THE WEBSITE DUE TO THE VOLUME OF WORKS IN THE CATALOGS."

I think that would explain why he couldn't find his titles. No one can find the titles because they're not on the website, no matter who the publisher.

"3) THE NAME, CUNNINGHAM ROBERT FERRELL DOES NOT LIST WORKS IN A CATALOG ON THE WEBSITE AS YOU DID NOT AFFILIATE WITH US AS A SONG WRITER UNDER THAT NAME OR THE NAME, FARRELL BOBBY. WE DO NOT LIST CATALOG OF WORKS ON THE WEBISTE OF NON AFFILIATED WRITERS."

They're saying that he got the name wrong. The misspelling of "Farrell" can explain that one - computers aren't very good at parsing misspellings.

"4) WE ALSO DO NOT LIST CATLOG OF WORKS UNDER THE ARTIST NAMES."

That makes sense. They would catalog works under the publisher and songwriter names, and only for those publishers or songwriters affiliated with BMI.

I know from experience that if you write or call BMI and ask them to send a list of all the songs registered for an affiliated publisher that they will do so. I don't know any PROs, or any website databases, which offer up all the information one wants in the form one wants it.

Now, I have a little bit of a problem with this next item. At the bottom of Bobby's second correspondence, you will find this notice:

">This message is intended only for the use of the Addressee and may contain
>information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL.
>
>If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
>received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message
>and its attachments and notify us immediately.

Umm... I hope you have received permission from Bobby to post this here publicly. I have sent him notice, and if he asks me to remove the post, I will do so immediately. (I just heard back from him - he said to leave it up, so it will remain.)

One more thing: I find it interesting that you included the headers on your alleged correspondence to BMI:

---------
[b] I tried to search too. This is the copy of the email that I sent to BMI.[/b]

X-Sender: [email-masked]
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:54:14 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Chylon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Bobby Farrell's Catalog
--------

Interesting that the "To:" is YOU, not BMI. So, you sent yourself an e-mail and now you're trying to tell me that you sent it to BMI? I don't think so. Nothing personal, you understand.

I suggest that Bobby take the BMI website at its face value, spell his name properly (the business name he registered with BMI) and *write* to them for catalog lists. It may save him a heart attack or a stroke someday.

And respectfully suggest that you will get a much better response from BMI if you actually send an e-mail to them, rather than to yourself.

RTL

General Bobby Farrel
Human Being Extraordinaire
(10/15/00 3:07:15 pm)

Re: The Biggest and Longest Running SCAM
This will be my first and last post. I've wasted enough energy and expertise with know-nothing and do-less jackass element you've collected here. The lot of you combined haven't a REAL Industry Credit between you, and the vast majority are still spewing the same old never-did-work nonsense.

A prime example is your inability to find the 50-Year old:

The Harry Fox Agency aka National Music Publishers Association, Inc.
711 Third Avenue
New York NY 10017
212 922 3260 Main
212 953 2471 Fax

; who collects MECHANICAL royalties. VMG has been a member for many years.

However, with respect to your half-truth ... make that a damned lie ... response to Chylon, permit me to inform you that I am quite capable of entering CORRECT data and spelling my names. I doubt you have the intelligence to comprehend that, but it is a fact nevertheless.

And now to her point, within the past hour I took the time and verified the information below:

With all your idiocies intact: explain the following or concede the point that [b]BMI IS A BUNCH OF LYING THIEVING BASTARDS![/b]

Try the links. Perhaps some [b]real[/b] First Hand Experience will blow few holes in your obviously well-programmed but never-did-it-yourself DELUSIONS.

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=SHAUN&submit=Search

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"SHAUN" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=LONE+SOJOURNERS

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"LONE SOJOURNERS" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=LINO

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"LINO" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=CHRIS+PATRICK+CHAMBLEE

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"CHRIS PATRICK CHAMBLEE" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=CHYLON

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"CHYLON" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=SABRINA+PIKE&submit=Search

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"SABRINA PIKE" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=DAN+GRAY&submit=Search

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching "DAN
GRAY" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=STRANGE+BREW&submit=Search

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"STRANGE BREW" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=JACK+LIONEL

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"JACK LIONEL" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=YOUNG+COUNTRY

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching
"YOUNG COUNTRY" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

http://repertoire.bmi.com/artist.asp?Action=Top&Page=0&strQuery=TED+REKICH

SORRY!
No records were returned with the values that you indicated. Try a more
broad-based search with fewer keywords.Artist accounts matching "TED
REKICH" are:
(Total 0 Artists, page 1 of 0.)

Is THAT enough, or are you absolutely too stupid to see the pattern [b]and the results?[/b]

[b]That Damned Akurian[/b]
General Bobby Farrell.
COO, Vandor Music Group
[email][email-masked][/email]
[url]http://www.vmgworldwide.org[/URL] [url=http://www.vmgworldwide.org][img]http://www.vmgworldwide.org/vmgwea.gif[/IMG] [/URL] [b][i]No Artist[/i] has to be on an Independent Label, [i]No Songwriter[/i] has to be un-published![/b] Click on the logo and get the facts!

Ragtime Lady
BB Goddess
(10/15/00 4:52:55 pm)

Re: The Biggest and Longest Running SCAM
Sorry, Bobby...

You may come in here calling names and insulting us for no other reason than that it is your personal style, but let me explain this to you:

1.) No, I am not going to go to the website and search for your artists because I don't have the time and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

2.) BMI has clearly stated that not all of their records are available online because of the sheer volume of them. If I wanted a rundown of your catalog holdings, I'd do it the old fashioned way and write to them.

3.) I at least showed a rat's ass of respect for you when I alerted you that your private e-mails had been posted on this forum. You returned the favor by jumping in here and calling names, etc. Fine way to run a business, IMHO. You know NOTHING about my experience or the experiences of others in this forum.

4.) I'm really surprised that you're affiliated with BMI at all, seeing as how you spend so much time and energy ranting against them. Okay, fine. Why not be a real rebel and lose the affiliation and collect the royalties yourself?

5.) Let it be understood right here and right now that I DO NOT TOLERATE abuse of people contributing to this forum or of the forum itself. I don't mind you coming here to discuss issues if that's indeed what you want to do. But if you want to come here and call us names, I'm afraid that you won't be welcome very much longer. The choice is yours. Do you have it in your heart to be civil with people you disagree with? If so, you can stay.

6.) If you are indeed so bright as you claim, you would have noticed that the EzCodes are not functional in this forum. Sorry you wasted so much time on formatting, but that was clearly spelled out in my response to Chylon.

7.) I personally have no use for your energy or "expertise." I can dream up my own diatribes and litanies of mindless insults, thank you very much. I choose to work with people rather than against them. Man, you're one angry dude. That's sad because I think you could accomplish a lot more if you knocked that boulder-sized chip off your shoulder. But that's just my opinion. Do what you want.

RTL

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